Questions and answers between the commissary and Claesken
The commissary first interrogated me concerning my name, the
place I was from, my age, and other like things. He then asked
me, "Are you baptized?" Claesken. "Yes." Copra."Who
Cl. "Jelis of Aix-la-Chapelle." Com. "The deceiver; he himself has renounced his belief. How did he do when he baptized you?"
Cl. "He baptized me in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."
Com. "Where did you receive baptism?"
Cl. "At Workum, in the field."
Com. "Were there others present?"
Cl. "Yes." Com. "Who were they?"
Cl. "I have forgotten."
Com. "What brought you there?"
Cl. "I have forgotten."
I could truthfully give this answer both times.
Com. "Are your children not baptized?" Cl."My youngest
two are not."
Com. "Why did you not have your children baptized?" Cd."Because I was satisfied with them as the Lord had given them to me." Com."Why were you so satisfied with Abraham and Sicke, and not with Douwe; you had Douwe baptized?"
Cl. "I did not know it then."
Com. "What did you not know then?"
Cl. "What I know now."
Com. "What do you know now?"
Cl. "What the Lord has given me to know." Corn."What has the Lord given you to know?"
Cl. "That I cannot find it in the Scriptures, that this ought to be."
Com. "How long have you not been to church?"
Cl. "Not for nine or ten years."
These are the questions which he put to me; but he used far more words, and when I did not readily answer him, he said that I had a dumb devil in me, that the devil transformed himself into an angel of light in us, and that we were all heretics. He then
read to me the articles I had confessed, and said it should come before the lords, and that if I desired it, he would write it differently. I replied, "You need not change anything."
Questions and answers between the inquisitor and Claesken
Inquisitor. "Why did you have yourself baptized?"
Claesken. "The Scriptures speak of anew life. John first
calls to repentance, Christ Himself also, and afterwards the
apostles; they taught the people to repent and reform, and then
to be baptized. Thus did I repent and reform, and was
baptized." Against this he did not say much.
Inq. "Why did you not have your children baptized?"
Cl. "I cannot find in the Scriptures that this ought to be."
Inq. "David says: 'I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.' Ps. 51:5. Since children are born with original sin, they must be baptized, if they are to be saved."
Cl. "If a man can be saved by an external sign, then Christ has died in vain."
Inq. "It is written, John 3:5, that we must be born again, of water and of the Spirit; hence, children must be baptized."
Cl. "Christ does not say this to children, but to the adult; therefore did I become regenerated. We know that the children are in the hands of the Lord. The Lord said: -;Suffer little children to come unto me; for of such is the kingdom of heaven."' Matthew 19:14. Inq. "The household of Stephanas was baptized, which probably also included children." I Cor. 1:16. Cl."We do not depend on probabilities; we have the certain assurance." He did not say much against this either. Ing. "What do you think of the holy church?"
Cl. "I think much of it."
Inq. "Why then do you not go to church?"
Cl. "I think nothing of your churchgoing." Inq."Do you believe that God is Almighty?"
Cl. "Yes, I believe this."
Inq. "Do you then also believe that Christ consecrates Himself, and is present in the bread? Paul says: 'The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? And the cup which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ?"' I Cor. 10:16. Cl."I well know what Paul says, and believe it, too."
Inq. ."Christ said: 'Take, eat; this is my body;' and Paul likewise." Matt. 26:26; I Cor. 11:24. Cl."I well know what Christ and Paul say, and thus I believe." Ing."Do you believe that Christ consecrates Himself, and is present in the bread?"
Cl. "Christ sitteth at the right hand of His Father; He does not come under men's teeth."
Inq. "If you continue in this belief, you will have to go into the abyss of hell forever. It is what all heretics say. Jelis of Aix-la-Chapelle has deceived you; he himself has renounced his belief, because he saw that he had erred." Cd."I do not depend on Jelis, or any other man, but only on Christ; He is our foundation, upon whom we have built ourselves, even as Christ teaches us in His Gospel: 'Whosoever heareth my words, and doeth them. I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock; and though storms come, and beat against the house, yet it will not fall.' Matt. 7:24. These now are the storms that beat against our house; but Christ is our stronghold, and He will preserve us."
Inq. "You do not understand it; there are many other writings, of which you know nothing."
Cl. "We need no other writings than the holy Gospel, which Christ Himself, with His blessed mouth, has spoken to us, and sealed with His blood; if we can observe that, we shall be saved." Inq."You should suffer yourself to be instructed; the holy fathers instituted churching* fifteen hundred years ago."
Cl. "The holy fathers did not have this holiness; these are human commandments and institutions. Neither did the apostles practice this holiness; I never read it." Ing. "Are you wiser than the holy church?" C1."I do not wish to do anything against the holy church; I have yielded myself to the obedience 61 the holy church." Inq."You should think: Do I know better than the holy fathers fifteen hundred years ago? You should think that you are simple."
Cl. "Though I am simple before men, I am not simple in the knowledge of the Lord. Do you not know that the Lord thanked His Father, that He had hid these things from the wise and prudent, and had revealed them to the simple and unto babes?" Matt. 11:25.
At one time there were also two monks with him, who were to instruct me. They had but little to say, only that we were people of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. I Tim. 6:5; II Tim. 3:7, 8. I replied, "When the day of the Lord will come, you will find it to be otherwise; take heed lest you then be of those who will say: 'These are they whom we had in derision; behold, how they are now numbered among the children of God, and their lot is among the saints."' Wisd. 5:3, 5. Then they said, "Behold, she judges us." I replied, "I do not judge you; but I tell you to take heed unto yourselves. Now our life is accounted madness, and our end to be without honor; but when the day of the Lord comes, it will be found quite different." The sum of the matter was, that I had a devil, and was deceived. I said, "Is Christ then a deceiver?" He replied, "No; Christ is no deceiver." I said, "Then I am not deceived; I neither seek nor desire anything else than to fear the Lord with all my heart, and (knowingly) not to transgress one tittle of His commandments." After he had talked to me still further, he said, "I can tell you nothing else; you may consider the matter." I replied, "I need not consider it otherwise; I know full well that I hold the truth."
When I came before him again, he said, "Claesken, to what
conclusion have you come?"
Cl. "I have concluded to adhere to that to which the Lord has called me." Matt. 20:1. Ing."The devil has
* Den Kerck-gang.
called you, who transforms himself into an angel of light in you people."
When he examined me the sixth time, he asked me, "When Christ
held His supper with His apostles, did He not give them His
flesh to eat, and His blood to drink."
Cl. "He gave them bread and wine, and He gave them His body for redemption."
Inq. "Christ certainly clearly says: 'Take, eat; this is my flesh;' you certainly cannot contradict this."
Cl. "Paul says: 'I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread; and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave it to his apostles, and said, Take, eat; this is my body, which is broken for you; this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.' I Cor. 11:23-26. Thus Christ left us His supper, that we should remember His death by it, that He gave His body and shed His blood for us. This supper I want to hold with the people of God, and no other."
He held to his twaddle: that we must eat Christ's flesh, and drink. His blood, since these were clearly implied by the words of Christ and of Paul.
Cl."Since the words are so plain, I can well understand
them; but it is as Paul says: that those who do not turn to the
Lord, have a vail before their hearts; but those who turn to
the Lord, from their hearts the vail is taken away. II Cor.
3:1416. We have turned to the Lord; nothing is hid to us."
Inq. "In the 6th chapter of John (verse 53) Christ also clearly says that we must eat His flesh, and drink His blood."
Cl. "It is also written there: 'Then the Jews murmured, and said: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Christ said: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, ye have no life in you.' Again, He says: 'Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life:' He also said: 'Flesh and blood profit nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.' Those who believe in God, and walk in all righteousness, they are temples of God, in whom God will dwell and walk, as Paul testifies." II Cor. 6:16.
When, he examined me the seventh time, he said, "Do you not
believe that the apostles ate the flesh of Christ?"
Cl. "Christ took the bread, gave thanks, brake it, and gave it to His disciples, and His body He gave for their redemption." Ing. "Do you not believe otherwise?"
Cl. "I do not believe otherwise than Christ has spoken."
Inq. "Then I declare unto you, that I am clear of your blood; your blood be upon your own head."
Cl. "I am well satisfied with this."
Inq. "Herewith I commit you to the lord."
He afterwards examined me once more, and asked me, "Do you
not vet believe that the apostles ate the flesh of Christ?"
Cl. "I have told you."
Inq. "Tell it now."
Cl. "I will not tell it again."
Inq. "Do you still persist in your views respecting baptism?"
Cl. "You certainly well know that the penitent ought to be baptized."
Inq. "This is true enough, if for instance a Jew comes, who is not baptized yet. Are you still of the same opinion in regard to infant baptism?"
Inq. "Do you not believe otherwise?"
Cl. "I do not believe otherwise than Christ has commanded."
Inq. "Then I declare unto you, that you will be tormented forever in the abyss of hell."
Cl. "How dare you judge me so awfully, seeing judgment belongs to the Lord alone? Acts 17:31. I am not terrified by this; I know better; when the day of the Lord comes, it will be found different."
I then asked him, "What does my husband say?"
Inq. "Your husband also still persists in his views; may the Lord enlighten you."
Cl. "We are already enlightened, the Lord be praised."
Concerning my baptism he did not say much, nor about infant baptism; but the whole of his talk was that we must eat the flesh of Christ, and drink His blood, and that this had been instituted fifteen hundred years ago, and that I was simple and had hardly once read the Testament through. I said, "Do you think that we, run on uncertainties? We are not ignorant of the contents of the New Testament. We forsake out dear children, whom I would not forsake for the whole world, and we stake upon it all that we have-should we run on uncertainties yet? We seek nothing but our salvation; you certainly cannot prove to us by the Scriptures, that we practice and believe one tittle against the Word of the Lord." But he only said that we had all from the devil, and that we were possessed of the devil of pride. I said, "We know that the proud are cast down from their seats." Luke 1:52. He talked so long, that he sometimes already fancied that I would heed him; hence I had to speak now and then, because I did not want him to think this; I could not bear to hear him speak so awfully against the truth.
The Lord, through His great grace and mercy, grant that all those who hunger and thirst after righteousness may be filled.
My dearly beloved friends, N., my heartfelt prayer and request of you is once more, that you will peruse and search the holy Scriptures, and learn to fear the Lord from the heart; for"the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Prov. 9:10. "Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets; she crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying, How long, ye sim-
ple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. Because I have called, and ye refused: I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; but ye have set at nought all my counsel and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; when your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they. shall seek me early, but they shall not find me; for that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord: they would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way and be filled with their own devices . . . but whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil." Prov. 1:20-31, 33; Isaiah 65:12; Ps. 2:4; Job 27:6.
Behold, my dear friends, lay this to heart, that the Lord will not hear those who do not fear Him now (John 9:31); and how precious the fear of the Lord is to him that will choose it; for nothing is to be compared to her. The fear of the Lord is honor, and glory, and gladness, and a crown of rejoicing. The fear of the Lord maketh a merry heart, and giveth joy, and gladness and a long life. Whoso feareth the Lord, it shall go well with him at the last, and he shall find favor in the day of his death. The love of God is honorable. Those to whom wisdom showeth her face, love her through seeing her, and in the knowledge of her benefits. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom; and the fear of the Lord is true religion. The knowledge of religion shall keep the heart, and justify it; it shall give joy and gladness. The God-fearing shall prosper in the day of life, and at his end he shall be blessed. To fear the Lord is fullness of wisdom. The fear of God is a crown of wisdom, making peace and perfect health to flourish. The root of wisdom is to fear the Lord: but unto the sinner wisdom is a curse. The fear of the Lord driveth out sin; for he that is without fear cannot be justified. Sir. 1:11. Be not faithless; for into a malicious soul wisdom shall not enter, nor dwell in the body that is subject unto sin. John 20:27; Wisd. 1:4.
My beloved friends, lay it to heart, how great a difference there is between those who fear the Lord, and them that do not fear Him. Mal. 3:18. Search well the Scriptures, that you will not be like the cities concerning which Christ says in the Gospel, that because they did not lay to heart His mighty works, which were done in their presence, it should be more tolerable for those of Sodom and Gomorrah at the day of judgment, than for them. Matthew 11:20. Therefore dear friends, the Lord does yet even now show such mighty works through us before your eyes; let it strengthen you, as Paul says that many of the brethren waxed confident in the Lord by his bonds, and were much more bold to speak the word without fear. Phil. 1:14. My dear friends, consider well,: when the Lord did his mighty works, he did not do them for the sake of a single individual, as we read in John, when He raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:42), but that the people should see His mighty deeds, and believe in Him, though only some believed in Him, and some were offended at Him, and said: 'Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?' Thus it is also at the present day with those who do not believe; for though they well see how strong and mighty the Lord is with us, yet they are offended at it, and say that we do this from stubbornness. And when we say that the righteous must suffer persecution, they say that we. are persecuted for anabaptism. Thus it is to them a cause of offense; but those who believe God well know that we must suffer for righteousness' sake; these, I hope, it will strengthen, and to us, be a trial unto. our eternal salvation, through the grace of God. I Pet. 2:6, 8; Matthew 5:10.
My dear friends, lay to heart how great glory is promised to those who fear the Lord with the whole heart, and what great anguish' shall come upon every soul of man that has not obeyed the Gospel; these shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. II Thessalonians 1:8, 9. Therefore become obedient to the truth, and be transformed in your mind, that you may prove what is that acceptable and perfect will of God. I Pet. 1:22; Rom. 12:2. Meditate day and night in the law of the Lord, and do not suffer yourselves to be prevented from praying without ceasing, as the Scriptures teach us in many places; he that asketh receiveth: to him that knocketh' it shall be opened. Ps. 1:2; I Thess. 5:17; Matt. 7, 8. Hence, my dear friends, have your hearts transformed, and the Lord will give you even before you ask Him; for blessed are those who are of a good will. Luke 2:14. 'Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled."' Matt. 5:6.
Therefore desire with a sorrowful heart for the Lord, and say, "Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths. Lead me in thy truth, and teach me; for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day. Remember, O Lord, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old. Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness' sake. Good and upright is the Lord: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way." Ps. 25:4-9. Therefore, my dear friends, repent sincerely, and confess your sins before the Lord with all your heart; the Lord is found of them that are of a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Is.
66:2. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that you may be exalted in eternity. I Pet. 5:6. Herewith I commend you to the Lord; may He guide you into all truth.
My dearly beloved friends, lay it to heart, for it is done out of sincere, ardent love, which I have for your souls, because I am certain and assured, that there is no other way by which we can be saved; hence I warn you out of a pure heart, and it will never be found otherwise. Therefore, though, some have much to talk or say, they do this because they do not want to take upon them the cross of Christ; and be persecuted for it, as Paul says (Gal. 6:12); but [let us] take for an example, that we are to follow Christ's steps, and that all the Scriptures constrain us, to submit ourselves to and prepare for suffering, even as also Paul says, "If we suffer with him, we shall also rejoice with him"; and as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ; and we also read that all the holy men of God were tried by many tribulations and sufferings (Judith 8:25), and how that they would joyfully receive sufferings; yea, that they greatly rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer for the name of God; but those who do not truly love the Lord want to be exempt from suffering, and love this temporal life more than their Lord and God, although Christ says, "Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it forever." Mark 8:35. Not that we must all die for the Word of the Lord; but the mind must be in such a state, that we would rather die, than once knowingly and willingly transgress one of the Lord's commandments; hence Christ says, "He that loveth aught more than me is not worthy of me." Matt. 10:37.
Therefore, my dearest friends, whom I love with all my heart, do not regard what men say, but look only to Christ Jesus, how He went before us in tribulation and suffering. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your power and strength; yea, though the whole world should rise up against and assail you, no one can harm you, if you have God for your Father, and if you have true love to God and. His. saints; for love can do all things (I Cor. 13:7); but where there is no true love, there will soon be confusion, when persecution and distress come (Matt. 13:21); but for him that commits himself to the Lord, and is possessed of love, nothing is difficult; had I not experienced this myself, it were impossible for me to know that it is so easy. Hence Christ says, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt. 11:30. Yes, dear friends, thus I am still minded, and I so love my Lord and God, that if I could save my life by a thought, and would know that it did not please the Lord, I would rather die than think such thought. Not that I am boasting; the Lord well knows how vile I have shown myself before Him; but it is through the great grace and mercy and love shown us that we are elected to His heavenly kingdom. Eph. 2:7. Now only do I feel within me the inexpressible grace and mercy of God, and His love, and how we therefore ought to love Him in return (I John 4:19); yea, this grace and love are so great before my eyes, that my sorrow is turned into joy.
I must further relate to you something of the sorrow which I had before I was apprehended. Now I remember the words of the apostle, that I have had godly sorrow, and that godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. II Cor. 7:10. Yea, I had such sorrow at times, that I did not know whither to turn, and sometimes cried to the Lord with a loud voice saying, "O Lord, crush my old heart, and give me a new heart and. mind, that I may be found upright before thine eyes." Ezek. 36:26. I said to my dear husband, "When I apply the. rule of the Scriptures to my life, it seems to me as though I must perish." Well may I say with David, "Mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as a heavy burden they are too heavy for me." Ps. 38: 4. I said, "My dear husband, pray the Lord for me; I am so harassed-the more I direct my thoughts to the Lord, the more the tempter assails me with other thoughts." I Pet. 5:8. Thus I cried to the Lord, and said, "O Lord, thou surely knowest that I desire nothing but to fear Thee." My husband would comfort me sometimes; it seemed to him that I did nothing but what could stand in the sight of the Lord. I said, "I have not my first love (Rev. 2:4); therefore I grieve, so that I cannot sleep. There is no hope to die unto sin, I apprehend to live a long time yet; though I strive never so much to reform, yet I remain as vile as ever: 'O wretched man that I am, whither shall I go?"' Rom. 7:24.
I should have written more to you, but the messenger came and informed me that we were to go [die]. My dearly beloved friends, such was the joyful sentence my husband, and I, and our brother heard: we showed each other such love, and had such .a glad heart. I thanked the Lord so greatly, that the lords all heard it. They bade me keep silence, but I spoke fearlessly. When we had heard our sentence, all three of us spoke, and said that they had condemned righteous blood, and other words. My dear husband spoke so friendly, and said so often, with a glad countenance, that all the people beheld it, "Yes, we thank the Lord!"
Herewith I commend you to the Lord. Hasten to come to us, and that we may live with each other in eternity.
When we were before the full council, we were addressed by the Procurator General of the council, who presented to the lords a general statement of what we had confessed before the commissary, and made a long speech, how long we had not been to
church, that we had not had our children baptized, and that we were Anabaptists, and said that according to the decree we had forfeited our lives, and that our property had lapsed into the hands of the king. Thus he accused us before the lords, and harangued us upon life and property, and when he had related how and where we had received our baptism, he asked us whether we would adhere to our baptism. We boldly and fearlessly said with a glad heart, that we had received one baptism according to the command of the Lord. Our brother Jacques said that if the contrary could be proved to him with the Word of the Lord, he did not want to act contrary to His Word.
My husband said that he would adhere to his baptism. And I said, as our brother had said, that we had received one baptism according to the Word of the Lord. Every time he said, "Just as you think." He then asked us, whether we did not wish an advocate. Our brother said, "The Lord is our Advocate." I John 2:1. With this we went away. We went from the council glad and joyful, though it was to cost our lives. Acts 5:41.
Since that time, my husband and our brother appeared once before the pastor of the Old Court, and on Sunday in Lent all three of us were before the steward, our brother first; he had a long conversation with him; and proved it to him with the Scriptures, so that he could not say a word against it, except that it was from the devil, since there were many in hell, and that ours were the worst; thereupon my husband was brought before him, and then I. When I appeared before him, he began to speak of infant baptism, of my baptism, the necessity of eating the flesh of Christ, and many other things. I said, "You need not bring these matters up; it is not given me to dispute with you. I tell you flatly, I will adhere to that wherein the Lord has called me." He replied that the devil had called me. I said, "Is it the nature of the devil now, to desist from evil, and do good? It is with us as the prophet says: He that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey. Isa. 59:15. Thus it has gone with us; from the first day that we forsook our vain, wicked life, we were hated of every one, as Christ says: 'Ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake."' Matt. 10:22. He says, "Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do; but fear him which hath power to cast soul and body into hell." Luke 12:4, 5; Isa. 51:7. Yes, Him alone we fear. He insisted that I should express myself with regard to infant baptism, and the eating of the flesh of Christ. I said, "It is not worth-while far me to answer your questions; they are so useless. I have told it to you enough; I shall tell you no more; we have had enough of it." I said, "Wake up, and give heed; you certainly see that it is not in human power what the Lord enables us to do, that we can leave our dear children, yea, joyfully resign our lives, for the honor of God." I said, "Take heed what you do, we are God's holy people, His chosen.
Though all your learned men in the whole world should agree, they cannot prove to us with the Word of the Lord, that we believe or act contrary to the Word." He said that we at least did not believe that the apostles ate the flesh of Christ, and drank His blood, and Christ says, "Take, eat, this is my body." I said, "Christ took the bread, gave thanks, brake it, and gave it to His apostles. When He took the bread, brake it, and gave it to them, the bread was certainly no flesh; He surely did not give them His living body to eat, when He stood alive among them; but He gave His body for redemption, not for them alone, but for all who should believe in Him." However, he was not to be convinced, but held to his old tune.
Our brother had proved everything to him so clearly with the Scriptures, that he could not say a single word against it. Our brother spoke very loud in order that those who stood without the chancery should hear how clearly he proved it to him. I also spoke as loud as I could, with a glad heart; whatever the Lord gave me to utter I spoke fearlessly; to relate all of which would take too long. He constantly reiterated that we had the devil in us, that the devil transformed himself into an angel of light in us, that we were possessed of the devil of pride, and that we must forever go into the abyss of hell. Thus he did every time we were before him. I said, "As lightly as you consign us to the abyss of hell, so highly are we exalted with the Lord."
As regards infant baptism he knew nothing to say, except Christ says, "You must be born again of water and of the Spirit." John 3:5. I said, "Children cannot understand the new birth; Christ said this to the adult; hence we have put off our old life, and put on a new life. We well know that our children are saved before the Lord." He then cited David, how he was born in sin. Ps. 51:7. Our brother had explained it to him clearly, yet he remained as ignorant as ever. When we had ended our conversation, I asked him what my husband said. He replied, "Your husband also persists in his views." I said, "What will you do with my poor husband, who cannot read a word?" He replied, "Your damnation will be greater than that of your husband; because you can read, and have seduced him." With this I left him. Afterwards Claesken, her husband, and brother Jacques were drowned, for the testimony of the truth, at Leeuwarden, in Friesland, in March, 1559.